There is no greater power on earth than the love of God, evidenced in the gift of His Son, Jesus Christ.  Of course, this gift is only given to Christians.

I heard a United Methodist pastor preach this recently, and I called him a few days later to ask if this is what he truly meant to say… if this is truly what he believes.  He let me know, emphatically, that this is his understanding of the Christian faith.  God’s love is available to all, but it’s up to us to accept or reject it, and there is a very narrow, very specific set of behaviors that prove whether you are a Christian or not.  It doesn’t matter what we say — anyone can say they believe in God or Jesus — it only matters that we align our behaviors with a carefully selected list of “dos” and “don’ts” from the Bible.

I asked for a definition of “unconditional” and was told it is “a universal and all-inclusive love that knows no boundaries or limitations.” 

I was cool with this, but pushed to then say, “doesn’t all-inclusive include everyone?” 

The pastor pondered for a moment, then said, “well, it is true for those who accept it.” 

I countered, “so there are limits and boundaries that it can’t cross?”  “Oh, no.  I can cross them, but God won’t force his love on anyone.”  “But what if I accept God’s unconditional love, but don’t act in a way that someone else defines as acceptable?”

“You’re talking like a gay person? You can’t be a gay Christian.  If you’re Christian, you aren’t gay.  If you’re gay, you aren’t a Christian.”

“Let’s not go there.  Let’s stick with something easy, like divorce.  I’m divorced and I am a devout Christian, even though the Bible is pretty clear.  At no point in the painful process of divorce did I feel I was exempt from God’s unconditional love.”

“Well, this is a bad example.  Divorce is unfortunate, but it doesn’t mean you can’t be a Christian.”

“So, the list of behaviors is up for editing?  We can put on it and take off it anything we want to?” I asked.

“Of course not.  I’m only talking about the really destructive and undebatable sins, like murder.”

“So, a murderer can’t experience God’s unconditional love?”

“He can if he repents and never kills again.  But a Christian won’t commit murder — if a person says they are a Christian but they murder, then they really aren’t a Christian.” he explained.

“And that means that God doesn’t love him?”  I asked.

“No, that means he rejects God’s love.”

“So, God’s unconditional love is conditional upon our acceptance?” I asked.

“Absolutely not!  God’s love doesn’t change, and it never depends on anything we do.  We either accept it or reject it.” he said.

“So, we determine whether we are loved or not?  That sounds conditional to me.”

“Listen.  God IS love.  God can’t be anything but love.  God has never done anything at any time in history that is NOT love,” he patiently explained.  “God’s love just IS, but that doesn’t mean we receive that love.  There are millions of people who reject this love.”

“And so the love goes away…  That sounds like God stops loving those who reject God’s love.  And you said that the gift is “only given to Christians.”  I claimed.

“What I should have said is that only Christians receive the love.”

“But, do you really believe that?  And then you said that it really doesn’t extend to all people who believe in Jesus as the Christ, but only a subset of Christians that behave a certain way.”

“You have to be a true Christian to fully experience the love of God.”

“Okay, what about Matthew 25 — the sheep and the goats.  Don’t you think this passage indicates that everyone should receive the love of God — that we should extend God’s love to everyone just as we would to Jesus the Christ?”

“That’s a perfect example of what I mean.  Jesus says, “as you do to the least of these my brethren or my family, you did to me.  He’s only talking about Christians.  Our only obligation is to our brothers and sisters in Christ.” he explained.

“But that’s an interpretation.  That all depends on where we choose to draw the line that defines “us” from “them.”  I believe the family of Christ includes all who are created in the image of God — all people on earth.”  I said.

“You can think that, but that isn’t biblical.  We don’t have responsibility for every person on earth.  We have an obligation to evangelize them, but if they reject us, they’re on their own.  Our scriptures aren’t universal — they apply to Christians.”

“So,” I tried once more, “God’s love is conditional.  It only extends to those who accept it.”

“Yes, it isn’t the love that is conditional, only our acceptance.”

I can’t begin to explain all the problems I have with this young pastor’s theology and attitude, though I think I understand his argument.  It closes the door to so much.  It limits our potential for healing and transformation in the world.  It constrains God’s power based on human judgment.  It decides who is “in” and who is “out,” based not on eternal truth but human whim.  It also gives us an excuse to give up on people.  I’ve been wrestling with this conversation for weeks, and it still troubles me.  A Christianity that is exclusive, divisive, judgmental, and yes, I’ll say it, conditional, can’t take us where we need to be.  At least, that’s what I think.

35 responses to “Conditional Christianity”

  1. pk Avatar
    pk

    It is conversations just like this that make me extrememly grateful it is not in my job description to decide who is and who is not… Shoot, loving with all my heart, mind and soul (and the joker across the streeton top of that) are more than enough to keep me busy for my life!

  2. Jeff Uhler Avatar
    Jeff Uhler

    Okay, I’m going to push back a bit here. God’s love is for all – no question about it. But is there not a human response necessary? How are we to understand sayins attributed to Jesus such as: 13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.” Matthew 7:13, 14 NLT)?

    Some of the arguments centering on God’s love seem to say that human response is not on God’s radar at all.

    Of course, we also have passages like Romans 8:38-39 which tell us that NOTHING can seperate us from the love of God.

    So, is a human response a necessary response to God’s love?

  3. Jay Avatar

    Dan, isn’t this simply another example of how far we have come from our roots and how much American religion of all stripes has appropriated Calvinism as the “correct” interpretation? Frankly I would think that this young pastor would reject the Arminianism that Wesley promoted in which God’s grace is unlimited.

    1. doroteos2 Avatar
      doroteos2

      Hey, Jay, good to hear from you. I think you are right on target. Our God is way too small, and we continuously make God over in our own image, making God believe and act as we would — as sad, scary, and pathetic as that is.

    2. Adam Estep Avatar
      Adam Estep

      I was thinking the complete opposite way. The young pastor emphatically affirms an individuals ability to reject God’s love. Wouldn’t a Calvinist deny such ability? Is not the basic premise of Reformed salvation that God is the only enabler of salvation, and therefore, if one is to be a Christian, it would not lie in the individual’s ability to reject or accept? I do not believe a Calvinist would use the phrasing, “(God’s all inclusive love) is true for those who accept it.” Although, perhaps, she/he is borrowing language she/he is familiar with in the UMC.

      Just a thought…

      1. John Meunier Avatar

        I did not read the young pastor as Calvinist at all.

    3. John Meunier Avatar

      Wesley preached unlimited atonement, but he also preached election. He did not preach individual election and predestination, but said God had elected the method of salvation – faith in Jesus Christ.

      I don’t think he would object to the quote at the head of this post, although I wonder if ‘unconditional’ would be accepted by him.

  4. John Meunier Avatar
    John Meunier

    Dan, I’m curious about some things that you string together here:

    It closes the door to so much. It limits our potential for healing and transformation in the world.

    I’m not sure why our potential for healing is limited by the notion that grace can be resisted or rejected – which seems to me to be the pastor’s basic argument and a fairly non-controversial notion, particularly in Methodist circles.

    Is this about the effect of preaching that message in a certain way? Are you saying that such a message turns people away from church and therefore limits our ability to heal and transform?

    It constrains God’s power based on human judgment. It decides who is “in” and who is “out,” based not on eternal truth but human whim.

    I’m not sure how God’s power is constrained by a declaration that God has established a covenant that works like so and so. God was free to do otherwise, but how does God’s steadfast faithfulness to God’s own covenant constrain God’s power?

    It also gives us an excuse to give up on people.

    In practice, we might give up on people, but I do not see anything that necessarily follows from the notion of resistible grace that requires us to give up on people. Nothing in says God gives up on people. The door is always open.

    And whether people accept or reject God, we are still commanded to love them and to the degree that we have experienced the assurance of grace will love them out of new hearts.

    Maybe I’m missing the point you were trying to make, but I am a bit confused by your argument – which is not usually the case.

    1. doroteos2 Avatar
      doroteos2

      If we give up on anyone — decide that they are “out” — then what? I am a deep believer in the love of God and the deep desire that we all be reconciled. Any theology that says someone is too far gone bothers me. To slam the door on another’s salavation is the ultimate act of hubris and hostility, and I can’t abide it. Having worked for over thirty years in prison ministry, I cannot judt judge someone and say, “well too bad for them.” I pity people who can.

      1. John Meunier Avatar

        No argument, Dan. We should not give up on the notion that anyone can be saved. God certainly does not.

        I just don’t follow some of your argument, which seems to suggest that some things necessarily follow other things.

        It’s not a big point. I may just have to live in perplexity. I’ve done it before and will again.

  5. Sharon Avatar
    Sharon

    For a minute there I thought I was the young pastor in question. Then I remembered I’ve never had a Monday-morning post-sermon call from you. But I did say in a sermon recently, “Jesus doesn’t go around saving people against their will.” But there’s a massive distinction between God’s love (which we can’t avoid) and God’s salvation (which we have to accept).

    That’s how I teach John Wesley’s Scripture Way of Salvation to confirmands. Prevenient grace is God’s unconditional love for us. God loves you, and you can’t do anything about it. Justifying grace is our acceptance of the forgiveness/salvation Jesus offers to us. This is when we recognize that we want God to love us, and we want to love God in return. And by proxy, to love God’s people. And sanctifying grace is this process continuing until we enter eternal life, because we as humans just continue to sin and need forgiveness.

    1. Jeff R Avatar
      Jeff R

      So everyone that walked the earth prior to Christ was pretty much out of luck? As were those who never heard the Gospel message?

      1. John Meunier Avatar
        John Meunier

        What if the answer is “yes”?

      2. Jeff R Avatar
        Jeff R

        John, that’s a very good question. I tend to lean on prevenient grace or Rahner’s idea of the “Anonymous Christian” for help on this. Inevitably though it’s a question that always comes up in confirmation or adult formation.

    2. Josh Tinley Avatar
      Josh Tinley

      Justifying grace is our acceptance of the forgiveness/salvation Jesus offers to us.

      By this definition, justifying grace is something that we do instead of something that God does. While I affirm free will and our capacity to claim or resist God’s grace, I think we need to be careful not to take the work of grace out of God’s hands.

  6. John Meunier Avatar
    John Meunier

    Doesn’t Matthew 25 cut both ways?

    Yes, it says we should feed, clothe, and visit every one of our neighbors. Love in action. But the end there is about the goats being the featured menu item at an eternal BBQ.

    I’d think your young pastor friend would have been happy to use Matthew 25 in his argument.

    1. doroteos2 Avatar
      doroteos2

      Oh, he was. He felt Matthew 25 made his point exactly, as I pointed out in the blog. He felt I was the one missing the point…

    2. Jay Avatar

      Of course, Matthew 25 never says that the sheep accepted Jesus as their personal savior. All it allows was that they offered unconditional love which then was the basis of their judgement. In fact, the sheep in Matthew 25 were SURPRISED when they received the reward, for they had no clue that anything they were doing was out of the ordinary. Jesus never talks at all about their assenting to receiving God’s love . . . only that they demonstrated that love.

      1. John Meunier Avatar

        Great reading of MT 25, Jay.

        Do we read it all the way through to the end?

        The unconditional and loving God escorts the goats off to eternal fire. And they are just as surprised as the sheep.

  7. Jeff Uhler Avatar
    Jeff Uhler

    What if we talk not about salvation, but about discipleship? The banquet is open and offered to all, but to follow Jesus as a disciple will incur a great cost.

    I believe the offer of salvation is open and made to one and all, that Jesus died on calvary to secure that salvation.

    I also believe that I’m not in the place to make a judgement on someone’s life, whether or not they will spend an eternity in heaven…

    But, having said this, I see many places where Jesus placed constraints – 21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matthew 7) I hear him extend the invtation to a rich young ruler to go and sell all he has to follow Jesus, and the ruler went away sad because he found his need for wealth too great.

    In Luke 14, he certainly talks about the cost of discipleship. It’s not going to be easy. When these statements are made by Jesus, do we merely discount them in favor of the ideal of an all-inclusive, all-loving God? What are we to make of such statements?

    Because of questions like you have raised, I’m certainly glad that I am not God. I’ll let God be God and continue to proclaim God’s love experienced through a growing, vital discipleship of Jesus Christ.

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